"DoppelLeben September 2, 2019 2:36 pm
112 chapters and I still dislike that last couple :/"
In reply to this person who blocked me, no, the replies from other accounts aren't me. Hard to believe but other people could also think you're too extreme for insinuating I should shoot myself. Anyway, as you can see, I wrote a super long post so there's no way I could have been logging in and out to reply your comment.
These are things that people missed out on which I find really important, since the chapter seems anti climatic otherwise.
1) "What do you want me to do?" This isn't the best translation. Seungtaek is more of asking Inbeom "what would you like me to do?". He's trying to take responsibility and atone, asking Inbeom what should he do to that Inbeom thinks is good (like maybe a settlement sum, or a formal apology).
2) Inbeom's hands start shaking while he's talking to Seungtaek. Seungtaek notices. He leaves then, even though he was trying hard to talk to Inbeom. It's parallel to chapter 111, where Inbeom first started liking Seungtaek.
Inbeom is someone who's neglected by his parents and it's painfully clear his parents have almost abandoned him. Naturally, being unloved by the most fundamental people in your life breeds a lot of insecurities about being unworthy of love. Inbeom's afraid of looking weak, looking unworthy. He told Seungtaek that he was extremely embarrassed about crying. Inbeom also said he started picking on Seungtaek, as Seungtaek saw him when he was weak and so became a threat.
In chap 111, Seungtaek stops anyone from seeing Inbeom crying and leaves him alone to collect himself instead of trying to comfort Inbeom. I think that it's exactly what Inbeom wants at that moment, and Seungtaek gives him precisely that. As said, Inbeom's insecurity is looking weak. Seungtaek knows he's embarrassed to be seen crying and so leaves him alone.
In chap 112, Seungtaek notices that Inbeom's hands are shaking. He's clearly about to cry. Seungtaek *still* remembers that Inbeom holds his pride dearly and doesn't like people seeing him being weak. So he tells Inbeom that he'll leave first, and *Inbeom can leave a few minutes later*. Basically, Seungtaek leaves first so that Inbeom can cry without him seeing. Inbeom can leave when he's ready (when he's collected himself).
I know people are always ragging on Seungtaek, but I want to highlight this that Seungtaek was generous to Inbeom. Inbeom mocked and bullied him for no comprehensible reason. Seungtaek knew Inbeom's weakness -- he hated being seen as weak. But not once did Seungtaek bring this up with anyone when he clearly could to humiliate Inbeom and get back at him. Seungtaek tried his best to ignore him, and one day, he snapped and turned violent.
Seungtaek has done bad things, but you guys really need to stop seeing only what you want to see. Seungtaek's a victim. Just because he doesn't fit your idea of a victim -- he's physically and mentally strong -- doesn't mean that he ISN'T a victim of Inbeom's physical AND sexual harrassment. And just because Inbeom has had a change of heart, it DOESN'T undo the horrible things he's done to Seungtaek. You can love a character and acknowledge that he's done bad things.
Seungtaek noticing that Inbeom's hands are shaking:
http://iweb11.mangapicgallery.com/r/newpiclink/someone_else_s_bl_manhwa/112/323c2f1077b7b3400ff7bb28779fb86d.jpeg
http://iweb11.mangapicgallery.com/r/newpiclink/someone_else_s_bl_manhwa/112/686f22bafc1778eceb0d3c2ab2885ed3.jpeg
A list of shitty things Inbeom has done that I acknowledge even though he's my favourite character (and everyone should too):
- Continuously mocked and harrassed Seungtaek
- Terrorised other children too
- Ordered Kyubin around because he "saved" his life by asking Kyubin to miss the family outing (that led to the car accident), even though Kyubin was going through a hard time as his whole family died
- Beat Seungtaek with a helmet till he passed out
- Sexually abused Seungtaek by kissing him while he was unconscious (idk why people keep glossing over this when you'd be livid if this happened in real life)
- Beat up his FRIEND, Kyubin, for being close to Seungtaek
- Stole someone's phone to blackmail him into bringing Seungtaek to him
- Beat Seungtaek with a helmet till his ear bled and he was on his knees
- Sexually abused Seungtaek a second time by forcefully kissing him
- Stole Suhyeok's money and uniform + other things
Let's go through a scenario. A boy hits you with a helmet till you're bleeding from the ear and you're on your knees. Your head hurts like crazy. He's taunting you, and then he tells you that he sexually abused you the last time he hit you and you passed out. He says he would have done more (maybe undress and assault you) if some guy hadn't intefered.
You snap and beat him till he's unconscious. Instead of acknowledging what the boy has done to you, I blame you for not controlling for strength in a hectic situation where you can barely even see straight. Yeah, so he did those things, but you didn't have to hit him THAT hard. I ask you why you didn't talk it out with him, as if it was a great option while you were on your knees and bleeding. Then I call you a bad person for hurting your attacker.
^ This is the ridiculous thing that a lot of you guys are doing in the comments. You are victim blaming Seungtaek with no regard for how you yourself would have reacted in his situation. Seungtaek has done wrongs, but nothing changes the fact that Inbeom did some horrible things to him. You can't give Inbeom a pass just because Inbeom has had a change of heart and Seungtaek seems fine. That's a big fuck you to all victims of bullying, physical and sexual abuse. You clear the slate of abusers because they had a bad childhood and are different now. Who undoes the trauma of the victims?
Thank you for this :)
╥﹏╥ thank you
BLESS U and ur comment
Just to let yall know, the senior is a uke. Yes, I was disappointed, because I thought we're getting a more rare kind of manga where the uke is the bad boy.
dunno i kinda like that senior is, cause he's older and has so much pride, that its nice to see him as an uke. ╮(￣◡￣)╭
Meh, that’s just cliched and almost giving off tsundere vibes. I don’t see legitimate delinquents being ukes often because the uke has to be more proper and innocent. But that’s my opinion. :
lol, I think its really suprising that senior is the Uke. He gives off seme vibes. ╮(￣▽￣)╭
he does, doesn't he? Personally I'm disappointed. In the raws, Xu Ze is taller than senior and I feel like the senior's personality somewhat changes too but since I can't read the raws I can't say for sure.
I know that to Suhyeok at first, Seunghee was a total dickhead (we would think that too if we didn’t know anything about him and he was just introduced as a character like that), BUT I FIND IT SO HILARIOUS!! ESPECIALLY when the delinquent was like “I’m gonna kill you” and Seunghee looked at him like he’s the littlest pipsqueak and told him to shut up.
The Kor raws translation are more gruff. Seunghee said to the delinquent, “What the fuck, XXX? Get lost.” I love Seunghee so much.
And to Suhyeok, he said, “Who asked? Don’t speak”. Not just don’t talk to me, it’s a whole just don’t talk at all HAHAHA
YES I was just about to comment on this. He's being unnecessarily cold but it's so funny to me too. "Don't speak" SEUNGHEE ahsgahs that's better than "Don't talk to me"
Now I love Seunghee more. He's brilliant
I think the dilemma the author brings up is so thought-invoking. A lot of people say easily that Han is a bad person and Saegye has no obligation to help him, even if it's sad that Han's brother is innocent and will pay for a crime that he did not do. But they may not have the same thoughts for genocides happening across the world between a privileged race and a not-so-privileged race. It may not be an exactly equal analogy, but it is a similar one.
We always ask ourselves, how could people just watched as the holocaust went on? Some call those privileged people in the country bad for living a good life and not trying to do anything while the rest suffered. But these privileged people feared for their lives if they didn't follow orders.
So, would you say it was right for them to keep quiet? They didn't want to be outed as sympathisers and be killed. Then, if it's right, would you say those underprivileged people who were tortured and killed should not pressure the privileged people and that those underprivileged people should solve their own problems?
Just questions to think about.
EDIT: Because Eva Mark 06 mistook my comment, maybe others might similarly mistake my comment, so I want to make it clearer:
'm pointing out that some people may have one answer for a certain situation but when another similar situation comes by, they have a different answer. Not that the right answer is that Saegye is a bad person. I am not posing rhetorical questions, but questions to think about that I don't know how to clearly answer.
E.g. Korea's current huge controversy. Some here may have a kneejerk reaction when they hear about staff and friends who keep quiet about the higher-ups who r*ped and drugged women, saying that they're cowards even though they may have kept quiet to protect themselves and their families, but they sympathise with Saegye here.
There is a difference between willing to help and being able to.
Saegye actually tried to help in his own way. He thought about helping Han as the first thing and then he checked if it was sensible and possible. Even a person more powerful than him, the criminal's brother, is powerless against the top, how could he be able to do anything?
He was burdened with a problem way bigger than an high schooler could handle, and Han probably knows too.
About the Holocaust, both the persecuted and the ones forced to persecute or witness are victims for me. About the second ones, as long as they did not do it willingly and did not find any pleasure in doing it, I don't see them as anything more than victims. It's useless and stupid to become martyrs and not change anything. I don't think it's wrong to value one's life and the loved one's as priority. We're humans, we have to make a choice sometimes.
And thinking about it, isn't Saegye position actually the one to pity.
If he does something to save one person, a close one, he could destroy the lives of so many more people. Would you be willing to send to death or to live as an outcast not only yourself but also a thousand people just to save one?
If I were to witness someone make the same choice as Saegye I wouldn't blame him. The one to blame is the system, not the person, no?
I think so, too. The fact that Saegye got into this kind of situation is atutomatically a lose for him, no matter what he does, no matter who he decides to save, he'll hurt many other people or even himself. It actually demonstrates real-life situations you can really sympathize with, because those things happen and we need to make a choice. That's why this manhwa is so thought-provoking and at the same time there's a level of difficulty to read it, since his situation reminds me of mine somehow, so it's kind of an anxiety trigger (not on topic but I think many people can agree). It really is the system to blame because, in this story, I can't seem to find "the bad one" (at least for now, but my guess is no one will be fully "bad" or "good", because, at the end, that's how people MOSTLY work.
As for the Holocaust case, you said it very well and I don't think I have anything to add.
You missed the point since you sort of went in a circle... I'm pointing out that some people may have one answer for a certain situation but when another similar situation comes by, they have a different answer. Not that the right answer is that Saegye is a bad person. You can read from the start again where I said that there's no easy answer.
Essentially, apologies if it comes off as offensive and it's not my meaning, but it's not about your personal opinion. If you're consistent in how you feel about the two situations, then that's good for you. But that's not the point here, no? It's that we may feel one way about a situation but feel another way about a similar situation.
E.g. Korea's current huge controversy. We may have a kneejerk reaction when we hear about staff and friends who keep quiet about the higher-ups who r*ped women, saying that they're horrifying cowards even though they may have kept quiet to protect their families, but they sympathise with Saegye here.
I'm not sure if you missed the point, but well, just in case, read this reply to the other person:
You missed the point since you sort of went in a circle... I'm pointing out that some people may have one answer for a certain situation but when another similar situation comes by, they have a different answer. Not that the right answer is that Saegye is a bad person. You can read from the start again where I said that there's no easy answer.
Essentially, apologies if it comes off as offensive and it's not my meaning, but it's not about your personal opinion. If you're consistent in how you feel about the two situations, then that's good for you. But that's not the point here, no? It's that we may feel one way about a situation but feel another way about a similar situation.
E.g. Korea's current huge controversy. We may have a kneejerk reaction when we hear about staff and friends who keep quiet about the higher-ups who r*ped women, saying that they're horrifying cowards even though they may have kept quiet to protect their families, but they sympathise with Saegye here.
Well, that's mostly what I said. There are too many factors to situations as a whole to be able to have the same answer every time in a similar situation, but I still stand by what I said in the last response. For example, in the case of this manga, there (yet, maybe) is no clear answer as to who is the "bad" person and there likely will no one, because that's human nature, but in the case of Holocaust, you can clearly point out the bad one. But that happens very rarely in real life. I don't think Saegye is a bad person, but I also don't think Han is a bad person. They have their own dilemmas and motives, but ultimately, not matter what they do, it's always a lose for someone who hasn't done anything wrong. Same for the controversy about raping women, no matter what people who know about it do, it's either a lose situation for them or the women. The problem is, depending on the situation, it's going to be worse either for the victims, or themselves, so it's not always about the morale.
It's not rather that I disagree with you or missed the point, I just added another perspective to such situations, which shows how complex human thinking process is and there's rarely a clear answer.
I know. That's what I said in my reply: that there's rarely a clear answer.
Hm, I think you may be trivialising the Holocaust. Many of the privileged people had no choice. They would be killed and treated the same, so I'm not sure why you say that you can clearly point out the bad one.
"The problem is, depending on the situation, it's going to be worse either for the victims, or themselves, so it's not always about the morale."
This is interesting. What you seem to be suggesting is that when it comes to these kind of moral dilemmas, it's about utilitarianism: the best outcome is the outcome with the most utility. And that itself has its problems. It is easy to say, "let the person who has to suffer least suffer", but is it fair for that person?
I'll just emphasise again, because I know a lot of people skim lengthy comments: I don't have an answer, neither am I saying that you disagree, but I do think you may have skimmed so you missed sort of what I'm saying. I'm here to have a discussion, as you can see in the topic below.
Errr I don't get this reply. I mean yeah it makes sense but not in reply to what OP said? Like I got the idea that OP is saying that people may think this way about Saegye but not the same about genocides? That the change their thinking?
TBH I think it's childish to always try to find one answer. To say that it's the system's fault, ok... but the system is made up of many "person"s. Saying it's the system's fault, duh, it's obvious and the dumbest way to shirk any personal responsibility. That doesn't sovle anything.
YES, thank goodness. I was wondering if I read it confusingly that it made it sound like the questions I wrote were my opinion. Did I word it weirdly? I wasn't sure why Eva Mark 06 would reply with "There is a difference between willing to help and being able to" so I kind of assumed they didn't read properly.
Oh that's interesting. I also read about this recently, Space Shuttle Columbia that crashed. People blamed the system, others wanted particular people held responsible. It's true, now that I think about it. Sometimes we just brush it off as that the system is the problem and we have to change the system, but it can be meaningless words as nothing is really done. Not that Eva Mark 06 meant it meaninglessly.
It wasn't confusing? was straight forward to me. Don't know if you're new, but people don't bother to read here. We're discussing mangas. lots are young kids that are just horny for yaoi and get hella angry if you say anything that doesn't worship their opinion lololol. Yea that's what I hate the most. like ok it's the system's fault, not the people? well find me that damn system and dismantle it. and i oop- system's made up of p e o p l e.
I don't know how far in the comments you've read back, but if you think that Seunghee was universally liked here, you're dead wrong.
Seunghee has/was constantly shit on, in this site in particular, for being a cunt. Coddle? the majority of people here hate(d) his guts (me included), especially during the earlier chapters. Hell, most people hated this couple when the time came for their arc; most people wanted Kyubin and Seungtaek to come back. So you need to stop with the self-victimisation of Suhyeok, because he's always been one of the fan favourites here.
wow... this is honestly such an eye-opener... I have to admit that at first, I was one of those people that was suspicious of Suhyeok because of his actions and seeming lack of emotion. I thought that maybe he was just stringing Seunghee along for whatever reason he had, like trying to date a boy or something along those lines, and for that reason, I felt upset at him whenever he did something slightly inconsiderate to Seunghee. But you're right. We need to realize that these are 3D characters with complex pasts and emotions, so we need to throw away our expectations of what we typically find in yaoi relationships and realize that there needs to be an understanding of both characters in the relationship rather than an expectation, and even a demand, for the characters to be lovey-dovey and perfect and pure at all times. Thank you for voicing your opinion and bringing this to light
Actually the majority were upset for two reasons
1. Seunghee wasn’t the “MC” and they would rather see him because he does drag and thats so fresh and way better than a cliche best friends to lovers story
2. Omg I thought the story was supposed to be about Seunghee. Why is he on the cover if its not about him?!
No one wanted to read Kyutaek because people thought it was cliche and they wanted to see the kid in drag. Also Suhyeok was never a favorite, opinion was neutral cuz people still had a hard on for pedo ahjussi and didnt know wtf to make of Suhyeok. Now Inbeom has won everyone over bc Seunghee has a positive perception of him so suhyeok has gone from neutral to cold.
Off-topic and going into semantics here, but what Seunghee does isn't drag, it's just cross-dressing
Um, you must have not been here for September last year at the least where Seunghee hate was at it's peak back then (and when the story truly transitioned into Suhyeok's and Seunghee's arc, round chapter 40-50). With the main reason for the hate being his attitude and 'anti-social' personality (start from date:page 107 for the Seunghee defending posts as to get a glimpse at the amount of hate he got).
Suhyeok was definitely a fan fave while Seunghee was constantly shit on because Seunghee was an ass to him. Thankfully the heat started to die down round mid-October and people started to come around but he still got a shitload of hate .
>1. Seunghee wasn’t the “MC” and they would rather see him because he does drag and thats so fresh and way better than a cliche best friends to lovers story
Back when Drag Race Frenzy was still rapid, but I will concede on that. I remember seeing those kinds of posts
>cuz people still had a hard on for pedo ahjussi
They were just a vocal minority, no? Most people were DRAGGING pedo and his stans iirc and giving Suhyeok his deserved appreciation for stopping that in its tracks later on and the pedophile apologists were rightfully DRAGGED, seeing as the most popular posts here are the ones dragging them.
I was one of the OG Inbeom stans, ahead of the times, my MIND.
I'm disappointed this is all you got from this and from both this reply and the other, I feel like you're being hostily because I hurt your feelings possibly in my other reply. Don't feel that way, if you do. Many people here engage in constructive discussions and we're always open to each other's opinions. It'd be good to keep an open mind and don't feel like I'm personally attacking you.
Suhyeok is definitely not a fan favourite. I'm not sure where you get this from because the recent pages of these comments section is all suspecting Suhyeok when the boy has only been shown to be a quiet person. When did you start following this manhwa? You missed a lot of the hate from the Kyubin/Seungtaek arc, especially at the start. Most of the recent comments and especially those from even the start are mainly Seunghee-supportive. Anyone else who reads this reply, please offer your opinion if you think so.
Yes, completely agree! People have mostly favoured Seunghee because he was the first character to be shown and he's refreshing because he does drag. And you are so right with the hate for Kyutaek. I thought this was fairly blatant to everyone, so I'm not sure why Wonderlust thinks differently? It's easy to check the oldest comments, it was so filled with hate for KyuTaek. :(
Oh, I missed the second part. I'm really not sure why you think people hate his guts. Just look at the recent comments.
Where was I self-victimising Suhyeok? I really think you need to calm down and not take this personally... Everyone is having a nice time discussing and giving their criticism but you're making this unnecessarily hostile.
no....... idk what manga you have been reading but just check the recent few pages, people have been shitting on suhyeok and only care about a happy ending for seunghee specifically. and that user isn't self-victimizing suhyeok, s/he brought up good points.
person who read from the start here. yea, you're right. seunghee is and still is one of the most liked characters on here. (he's mine lol) idk what the person wonderlust is talking about because the hate train for suhyeok and kyutaek is REAL, even me as a seunghee fan is sick of it. they feel like akgae fans of a kpop band lmfao
add on: akgae fans are fans of solo members of kpop band and often sabotage the other members
hey! thank you for being nice about this. i was worried i'd piss off people since someone took offence to my post, so i'm glad we can have a calm and nice discussion about this manhwa. it's okay, i totally understand you. i sometimes have favourite characters like that too who i want to give the world to, or at least, i hope something particular happens. and then i get disappointed when i don't get what i want. for this manhwa, it's actually a couple, inbeom and seungtaek HAHAHA (i want them to meet again and become friends). but i realised it wasn't a good habit since i was putting my expectations on a plot that belonged to someone else :(
"We need to realize that these are 3D characters with complex pasts and emotions, so we need to throw away our expectations of what we typically find in yaoi relationships and realize that there needs to be an understanding of both characters in the relationship rather than an expectation, and even a demand, for the characters to be lovey-dovey and perfect and pure at all times"
that is exactly what i wanted to say, you phrased it perfectly. there's more to lovey-dovey cookie cutter romance, these are people in a relationship who are more than just being the girlfriend/boyfriend of someone.
I was being facetious about the drag comment but yes he does/did cross dress.
I’ve been reading since chapter 1 and even watched the cartoon before the manhwa translations caught up so I’ve watched the ebbs and flows of public opinion. I wont say no one called Seunghee out on his attitude problem, but as it always has been, it was swept aside because he’s a closeted gay crossdressing kid whose abandoned by his family so ppl always defended him and didn't hold him accountable. Also a lot of readers share ( which is a credit to the writer) Seunghee’s paranoia in that they think literally everyone is out to get him and do him harm.
I do agree the ahjussi pedo fans were loud and rightfully dragged but I point that out to underline the trend that for a lot of Seunghee fans here, whoever he has a positive opinion of, they do too. Seunghee’s perception has ruled this comment section.
I’m not saying people hated Suhyeok but he was nowhere near a favorite, it was more neutral with him. He was an alternative to the pedo for a lot of people but he was also kinda just there, because again at the time Seunghee didnt know him and had no opinion of him besides annoyance.
I guess we tend to decrease the severity of something if it aligns with our own thoughts. Everyone is reading this differently hahaha
People who are neutral to Kyutaek or simply don’t care for them suffer from amnesia when it comes the flood of comments constantly whining about cliche plotlines and not reading until Seunghee and his wig show back up lol. Like they couldnt get it through their heads that the MCs would have different arcs and just complained all time that they were “tricked” by the cover and first few chapters.
hello! this got a bit long and i don't think anyone will bother reading this but first of all, i just wanna clarify that i was a reader of this manhwa since at least when chapter 13 was uploaded, and i feel like we all read this manhwa at different times and experience different types of reaction as each chapter was uploaded. i used to scroll thru the comment section religiously, and i felt compelled to add that seunghee wasn't being "coddled" and "adored" since the beginning. before his arc with suhyeok, there are pages after pages of people calling him a bitch and an asshole who couldn't chill bcs he kept pushing ppl away and hanging out with the ahjussi. i knew bcs i remembered the essays i wrote defending him and saying his character development has yet to come. but now that it did, and he rarely does act like how he did in the beginning too, i think it's unfair that people kept bringing it up, though admittedly rarely, nowadays. also, during the chapters showcasing the peak of kyutaek romance and the resolution to their problems, i'm pretty sure so many ppl commented on how cute and adorable they were that i thought it was all ppl commented abt in the comment section. my point is: readers of this manhwa can be passionate to the point that each chapter will warrant at least 5 pages of comments, so it's easy to miss out on comments hating on this character or adoring that character. there were times where a character was vehemently hated (ie seunghee) but it passed. there were times kyutaek was everyone's otp, but that also passed as the spotlight shifted to seunghee x suhyeok. there are times when kyutaek was hated, seungtaek as a person was hated, inbeom was hated, but it changes as the story shifted its focus. you get my idea. so i think its funny that ppl say "oh what are you talking abt? everyone hates this pairing, just look at the comments etc" when there were times that particular pairing was once adored, but ceased to be as the story progressed.
next, i do agree that seunghee shouldn't be defended for his attitude problems just bcs of his past. it should not a justification, though it was meant for readers to understand where he is coming from. he is a character that was meant to undergo character development. and he did. he has a shitty personality before, but when did we ever see him acting up now? he's willing to talk with suhyeok abt his problems in the previous chapter, he learnt how to communicate from his part time job, and he finally has friends! readers who defended him by saying he can act hostile and rude bcs he experienced trauma are doing it wrong. he's hostile and rude bcs the author wanted his character to develop, not to cling to his past just to justify his actions. just my two cents. ppl should not be justifying and defending his actions from before, bcs ppl should be acknowledging his growth instead.
i totally agree with all you said abt suhyeok. ppl judged him before he even has his own pov chapter! we don't know anything abt him, we don't know what he was thinking and his story wasn't fleshed out fully as of yet. yes seunghee has every right to get mad at him but we don't even know the root of why he did it and what his actual feelings are. it's just too soon to conclude that he's a bad character. he is obviously meant to have his own arc abt his background story, his reasons for doing things, and why he fell for seunghee. because yes i'm spoiling this, suhyeok loves seunghee. you hv solid points there, and i wish ppl stop seeing suhyeok as just another background character meant to just be seunghee's bf, and see him as a character who is just as flawed, complex and well-written as the others.
You're right! This webtoon has over 100 chapters and things always shift when the arcs pass. Like I said we all remember things differently because of our perspective so I’ll agree to disagree on Seunghee being a favored character. I do still think that some people short sightedly let his perspective guide their reading of the story.
Suhyeok definitely gets forgotten and its a shame because I think he’s an alright kid. I wish the creator spent more time exploring who he is outside of Inbeom and Seunghee. And honestly even if his intentions weren’t the purest in the beginning, which wasn't he upfront with Seunghee about wanting to plot against Kyubin? So I don't think he was that secretive and “shady”. Suhyeok has the least amount of blood on his hands, next to Seunghee of course, so I’m glad it was resolved relatively quick. It also showed growth on Seunghee’s part to forgive and hear Suhyeok out.
hey! yes, i've seen you around before. you were arguing with someone called seunghee i believe. it was during the time where people were bashing kyutaek or something. i remember since that person often comments on my posts.
i agree with some of what you said, but i have to clarify several of my points that you've mistaken. i've never said that seunghee was coddled all the way. my discussion refers to now, and if you think differently that people aren't favouring seunghee over suhyeok unfairly, there's not much to go off on since the core opinions are different.
about your point on seunghee's past and how he has not acted up recently, i'm not sure what you mean. i never did bring up seunghee's past because i think he is still that kind of person so he deserves hate. nor have i said that he's acting up right now, but he gets a pass. i used him as an example: it's understandable for seunghee can act hostile based on his trauma (reference to several of the topics in the discussions) while suhyeok's past has been ignored since his emergence for how he acts.
please don't think of me as thinking of seunghee as a bad person. i can't remember if he's your favourite character, but i really hope you don't take offence. i love that he has character growth.
for your point about seunghee being annoying to some, i agree. but personally for me, i feel like the kyutaek hate was a lot more than the annoyance towards seunghee. i've actually gone through the comments section just today but of course, we can each have different opinions. i've roughly counted the comments during the kyutaek arc and the hyeokseung arc, the ones demanding for seunghee to return are much more than those that are asking for kyutaek to return. i'm not sure if you're a person who produces creative work, but it gets heartbreaking to see things like that. but anywho, let's focus on now. would you agree that seunghee is one of the more well-liked characters? for me, going through the comments, it seems fairly blatant people are accusing suhyeok of so many things baselessly in an effort to make sure seunghee is protected.
(also, something i just thought of. i'm curious: what's your take on why this manhwa is rated at 9.3 despite having a good plotline, when other manhwas average higher with the same quality? for me, i'm quite sure that it's because people hate kyutaek with a passion. the low ratings were especially strong during the front part of the manhwa, aka it's likely they disliked the twist. they expected a love triangle with seunghee in the centre, didn't get one, and horribly thought the manhwa was terrible because they didn't get the ship they wanted. you can check twitter as well, during the time mangago first released this manhwa, it was hell. absolutely hell. it was the most disrespect i've ever seen to an author.)
tldr; i agree with some of your points. people were annoyed with seunghee, i will never deny that. you're right that the comments fluctuate. but again, my point wasn't that seunghee has never gotten hate. but currently, the hate for suhyeok is mad and people are coddling seunghee. there are very few that hate on seunghee now, don't you think so? while before this chapter happened, suhyeok has been termed as suspicious, having nasty intentions, etc. when he has barely done anything.
so i just want to make it clear: my comment on this current time is referring to the current time as well, not that it's applicable to every part of the manhwa. it would not make sense if i suddenly wrote a topic telling people to stop hating on seunghee. people are bound to ask, "what? where?". nor would it make sense if i ranted about how people hate inbeom like crazy when the discussion section has been celebrating him.
and if we really want to do a comparison for the whole history of the manhwa, the hate for suhyeok and kyutaek is much more to me, personally. you can tell by counting the comments during each arc and how vile some can get. but i get that it's your opinion and ofc it's a hassle to go through the discussion section (it totally was for me), and i completely respect that. i've never seen people wish for him to leave the manga, while kyubin and seungtaek have gotten such comments.
to reiterate, people were annoyed at seunghee, but by coddled, i hope you understand that i meant he currently is coddled. aka people are mainly supportive of him now. my comment a few days ago was referring to the current arc, not previous arcs.
Also i hope my reply doesn’t come off as offensive or rude! i’m tired and in a rush to sleep, so since you brought up a lot of things, i kind of may come off blunt unknowingly :( hope my reply isnt hurtful
hey! (๑•ㅂ•)و✧ HAHA this is a little random but i was wondering if you’re a big fan of this manhwa too? i really love it like crazy and so finding someone like you who appreciates it more as a piece of work than how shippable everyone is really made me happy! It’d be fun if we could discuss things together, and I can share with you some cool stuff I found from the author!! I have this rated KyuTaek comic the author released that can’t be accessed by most people, if you’re interested! (HAHAHA maybe i’m tired so i’m more alright with being shameless)
(I’m so bad at doing mangago discussions since i always have something new to add)
My comment didn’t really talk about the things i agreed with so it may sound like i actually totally disagree with you, but it’s really just because im tired so i didn’t bring those up. I also have gotten coffee and realise i sound so rude in my previous comment, i’m sorrt for that :( in my head i was talking in the most passionate-excited-nerd tone ever but... why did it come out so angry...
Also, u put it really well. “people at different times have different experiences.” Spot on! you said that people, because of when they read, they don’t realise the reactions then. I mostly read on tappytoon during the start, so i never realised how badly people hated Kyutaek until some guy mentioned it and I backtracked. And i totally agree with you that seunghee was annoyin for some people. I should have mentioned that, but because i was more focused on now, i left that out which gave off the wrong impression. No character has gotten no hate at all.
Also I think it’s because of the phrasing of your second point, I couldn’t really understand so my original reply to that is me focusing on *if* u meant that i brought up seunghee’s past to say that he’s a terrible person currently but no one is saying anything. I can’t remember if I put a “if you meant this, then this is my reply” thingy, I might have forgotten because I was just writing whatever comes to my head in a rush. Beyond that, i feel the same. I love that u brought up that we shouldn’t cling to their past. Yea, i acknowledge it. But they arent static characters. The growth is what should be focused on, i love that part.
Btw when i brought up the user Seunghee, i left out WHY i remember you guys, dummi me. It’s because your profile picture was Suhyeok and the user’s name was Seunghee, so I found it quite funny like the couple was arguing HAHAHA
(the last paragraph of your last comment cracked me up lololol)
now that i'm calm now, i feel like the first para of my reply is unwarranted and irrelevant. maybe i was being extra sensitive so i poured my heart out on ppl fighting over which character has the most hate comments and you became the unfortunate person to see my rant in all that. it's justifiable to say that seunghee has the most support right now, and of course some of his fans have acted out of line so it's fair for other ppl to call them out. i don't mean to accuse you attacking seunghee bcs noooo you didn't and what you said was all valid criticism to his fans, so i also apologise if i crossed the line with the things i've said. maybe the time when the seunghee-hate was at its peak burned so much into my mind that i get defensive for no reason. right now, i agree with your stance that suhyeok was bashed in order to protect seunghee even though it was too soon to judge him baselessly without knowing the exact reason he did what he did. the current situation is just that and it's unfair for suhyeok when his personal arc has barely begun. and regarding my take on why the average rating for this manhwa is so, i think its bcs the author made it available for the fans to take sides, and the ones who are unhappy that the story didn't progress to where they'd like it to be rated it low. they're either unhappy that certain pairing is happening or certain character receive some spotlight, which basically includes your opinion on the kyutaek hate as well. we may not see eye to eye on that since we experienced different perspective, but i think what you think is valid.
regarding my second para on seunghee's attitude and his past, oh noooo i wasn't disagreeing with you. i was agreeing and adding my two cents on what i think ppl should be doing instead of defending his once crappy attitude with his traumatic past. his past might be a mitigating factor and a clarification on why he behaved that way but of course, there is no excuse for bad behaviour. i just think ppl should encourage his growth instead of making his character stagnant by defending his past behaviour and continuously associating him with it.
(yes my fav character is seunghee. i relate to him bcs im gay and my family didnt take that fact well. it was a traumatic experience and i lost trust with most ppl, but i guess i'm not as antisocial as seunghee, i still mind my manners towards other ppl. i don't think his problematic past is excusable in anyway but i understood him in a sense)
and i agree on all of your points with suhyeok. i think you elaborated on that so well that i don't think i need to add much. i love it and i hope ppl would open their eyes and anticipate where this story is heading and how both of them will resolve this predicament instead.
(i do produce creative work (as a hobby but i follow enough professionals to know the arduous lifestyle they have to go through) sk i get what you're saying and feeling. and it's valid).
pls don't apologise! you are so far one of the most decent commenters around, and it's fruitful and fun having discussions with you. i can practice my english and get the gears in my head turning too. i do apologise again if i hurt you or accuse you of anything.
yes! i wish his character is fleshed out more and given more spotlight. i love him and i think the things he did was not more problematic than what the rest of the characters did, so i think ppl should be giving him the benefit of the doubt and some chances as well. i agree with everything you said, especially on the creator's part. i, for one, would absolutely love to have a few long chapters where we can get inside suhyeok's head and see who he really is.
... i'm sorry for butting in but do you know if the author is active again on twitter? (also i'm interested in that rated comic since it was inaccessible for me too damn korean id requirement)
Hahaha is it obvious? Yes I love this manhwa, its simplistic yet deep. Ohhhh is it what I think it is? I saw it when it was first passed around now its gone hahaha Please share everything you have and discuss away! Its good to see some discussion thats contentious and actually explores the characters. I liked your take on Suhyeok, he’s been so ignored and you highlighted that really well.
hehehe..... could I also get that comic...??? (=・ω・=)
I'm glad I was able to clarify what you were thinking!!
Ye, I would love if everyone met and became happy again as well.... that would be the best! It's okay to have hopes for something to happen, just as long as you don't become aggressive when it doesn't (which you definitely are not! You are being very open-minded about this whole thing, which is much appreciated! :))
ahem.. If possible could I also see this comic you speak of? >//<
I’ve see a lot of people to brush off the first couple and say the author wrote them in a cliched/boring manner. Definitely, your opinion is valid. But unfortunately, I’m sure part of this hate for the first couple is because people wanted Seunghee to have a love interest when they started the manga. Because these readers came into this manga not to appreciate a creative work but just to fulfill their shipping desire, they felt disappointed when it wasn’t a typical love triangle and so disliked the first couple automatically. This is pretty unfair to the author who worked hard to write this manhwa.
We shouldn’t discredit her work because of our own biases. Just because we wanted something and didn’t get it, just because we aren’t capable of picking up on the subtext of the first couple, it doesn’t mean the first couple is boring or cliched.
I find that the first couple is very realistic. Some people think they’re frustrating because they love each other but aren’t together for whatever weird reason. But that’s reality—just because we love someone doesn’t mean we’re good together.
Seungtaek has stated that he’s afraid of what would happen AND of Kyubin. He studied like crazy for three years to get into a prestigious school. Mondays to Sundays, his schedule is packed with tutoring, after-school classes, revision. He has no time for any leisure except on Saturdays where he hangs out with Kyubin.
It was his dream and he put a lot of blood, sweat and tears into it. And then on the day of the interview, he threw it all away for Kyubin. He didn’t just fail. He sabotaged himself on purpose, killing all his chances to get in. And he could never get it back. He had to shamefully face his parents and his gossipy schoolmates due to his failure. For some, they may think this is cliched because it happens all the time in romance novels—you give up everything for your lover and then happy ever after. It’s very romanticised in romance mangas to sacrifice everything for a lover.
But Seungtaek is one of the few characters who realises the gravity of what he’s done. It’s realistic, because in real life, we don’t just throw away everything for someone and then live a happy go lucky life with no worries. You don’t just abandon your family, your career, etc. for your boyfriend on a whim. Seungtaek had dreams and thinking about how his love for Kyubin made him give up that huge dream made him afraid of what else he’d immediately throw away just for Kyubin.
Of course, Seungtaek is afraid of society too. People say Seunghee is interesting because of his family problems. Well, Seungtaek fears those family problems coming up, which is why he can’t date Kyubin. He’s even asked Seunghee about this in the first few chapters.
Seungtaek also said he is afraid of Kyubin’s love for him, which is why he often says he’s anxious things will go wrong while they’re dating. Kyubin took the fall for him twice. If Seungtaek asked him to die for him, it’s clear Kyubin wouldn’t hesitate.
And that’s scary if you put yourself in Seungtaek’s shoes. I know we may be used to more cliched mangas where this sort of behaviour is romanticised, but it shouldn’t be, and this manhwa is realistic about it. It’s scary to think your lover doesn’t care at all about his own self and only cares about you—that’s not healthy. Seungtaek is right to be scared of Kyubin.
And have we wondered why Kyubin is like this? It’s not just love like what manhwas make it out to be. Kyubin has a good reason to act like this, which is what many other insanely in love couples lack. It’s partly because his family died and he has no one else. His grandma is sick and later died. He can’t count on his friends as he has said, since they only like him for his status. Suhyeok has even talked about Kyubin dismissively as well. Kyubin literally only has Seungtaek while they grew up and even now, so his world is Seungtaek. Their relationship is the only deep relationship Kyubin has—he’s willing to do anything because he’s scared to lose the last person he loves that’s still alive.
And then comes Inbeom, which makes the whole matter complicated, because he’s a bully with a warped love for Seungtaek, his victim and also aggressor.
So it’s not just some frustrating love story that makes no sense or is boring just because they happen to be best friends who are opposites. It’s not fair to say that when you didn’t read into the details the author left, so you thought of KyuTaek stagnant state as without reason. Sure, it’s plot isn’t stellar, but they’re high schoolers in a slice of life manhwa. It’s the same for HyeokSeung, you wouldn’t say their plot is extremely interesting, would you?
To stress, it’s not fair to brush off the author’s hard work on the first couple’s story as cliched/boring just because we aren’t sensitive to pick up on the nuances. It’s not the author’s fault if we are poor readers who can’t read in-depth into their dynamics. You can prefer more in-your-face kinds of plots, but the author put in care to make things subtle. It’d be good if we can keep an open mind instead of dismiss the first couple due to our own lack of sensitivity in reading.
TL;DR — Don’t discredit the author’s hard work and say the first couple is bad because 1) you hate that Seunghee didn’t get a love triangle at first so you are trying to justify that dislike OR 2) you didn’t manage to pick up on what made the couple unique. This is a piece of creative work. You shouldn’t feel entitled that whatever you want should come true because this is not your work (e.g. Seungtaek and Kyubin fight over Seunghee).
Am I justified to think the story is bad because it’s a BL if I wanted a straight couple? No. If you can see that that’s ridiculous, then you expecting that this story will be about a Seunghee harem is also not justified.
That said, if you still think they’re bad even after considering these factors, that is totally fine. It’s your opinion, just make sure to have a grounded one
Hey guys, let’s not argue! We can all express our opinions in a nice way. We shouldn’t be pitting one couple against the other. They are both from the same story. Even if you prefer one couple over the other, it’s not necessary to be rude and bash the other couple. Really think about it and ask yourself if there’s any reason to badmouth another couple.
At the start so many people hated KyuTaek just because they forced their own expectations on the author by wanting it to be a love triangle with Seunghee. That is sad because these people don’t respect the author or appreciate her creativity and refuse to budge on what they want, as if they are the ones writing the story. It seems to have died down now that Seunghee has a love interest, but why are people arguing about couples again?
I really think we shouldn’t approach a manhwa with the motive of shipping, like someone mentioned. It takes away all appreciation for the manhwa as a piece of creative work.
AGREE.
Gone are the days when shipping just means transporting? Lol. I’m 30 and too old for this. But this shipping is irritating. Where are those readers who gets disappointed or excited about how the characters and the plot develop every chapter??? Where are those readers who appreciate and thank the writer for the time and intellect poured on every chapter??? It’s all about the story right? It’s entertainment. It’s a hobby. It’s an escape to reality and not making it reality.
The author released the characters' heights some time back! Just something cute I thought I'd share!
Seunghee - 172cm
Seungtaek - 176 cm
Suhyeok - 181cm
Inbeom - 181cm
Kyubin - 183cm/184cm
Kyubin's height is either 183cm or 184cm. In the profiles the author released, Kyubin was 183cm, but in an extra comic (I'm not sure if this came before or after the profiles), Kyubin announces that he's 184cm and he's 8cm taller than Seungtaek, so he's the winner while Seungtaek is the loser :>
So cute :') Especially because in one scene in middle school, Inbeom teased Kyubin for not having his growth spurt yet. Inbeom was so much taller than Kyubin and Seungtaek in middle school, but now Kyubin's the tallest~
I have no idea why Seunghee/Suhyeok fans always have to announce they like the second couple more than the first. Imagine going into a candy shop, buying lollipops, and then standing there yelling at every person who buys chocolate, “JUST SO YOU KNOW, I DON’T LIKE CHOCOLATE. I LIKE LOLLIPOPS MORE THAN CHOCOLATE. LOLLIPOPS ARE BETTER THAN CHOCOLATES. YOU LIKE CHOCOLATES? WHY? LOLLIPOPS ARE BETTER! YOU'RE SO WEIRD!”
Can’t you annoying fans keep quiet for once and let people enjoy what they want? How self-absorbed are you? This goes to ALL Kyubin/Seungtaek fans who do this too.
What is wrong with that exactly? They announce who they like more. Whether it is objectively right or wrong shouldn't matter, at the moment, because that is how they feel. They have every right to share their opinion as you have every right to criticize theirs. I am tired of people like who thinks their words are gospel. Rather than expect people to follow what you want, why don't you do what you preach. Be quiet and enjoy the things you like. We should be the one saying how-self absorbed are you? If there is something you don't like or you don't agree with, go ahead and feel free to start an argument. However, don't ever think that your words are law. Besides, I'm quite certain that you have an ulterior motive for posting this ridiculous complaint considering your other post.
Bro... ulterior motive? It's a manhwa, how old are you to legitimately think people would have ulterior motives about telling people to stop? The truth is simple: you're offended because you're exactly the type of person I described. All I said was to stop comparing the couples when you know it does nothing and just makes people annoyed. Yet you yap your head off as if I wrote it in the bible and demanded God to make you stop.
Are you the sort that like to pit the couples against one another because you have some warped delusion that fans of the manhwa are split into two "factions" like you're in some EXO vs BTS fanwar on Twitter? That's why you're so offended, because you're one of those children that probably likes to hate on certain things and then yell "BUT I HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO SO!!!!". Look, I'll make it easy for you to understand: what you're doing isn't a sin but it's an asshole thing to do. You can be rude and continue stomping around angrily but what does it do for you, kid?
And boy, you sure are dense. You get mad at me saying that we should all be quiet and enjoy what I like, yet you say that I should be quiet and enjoy what I like? Did you think before writing this post or are you that brainless?
Look, if you're offended because you act like a petty child, maybe don't get mad at me for pointing it out and try to change your behaviour?
Oh okay, now I remember. You're that Seunghee fan. It's sad that once you like a character, you believe you have to worship their every move and defend them from any sort of criticism. It must be suffocating to have you as a fan, I hope you're not a fan of idols, else you'd excuse them from every mistake they make. Dear god, I have the feeling you're one of those oppalogists who pretends gender discrimination doesn't exist against women idols.
Look, kid... People can generally like things and also point out things that are wrong or that they don't particularly like. Do you have friends who do things who are annoying, or toxic? You don't have to love every aspect of them, okay? Things are not black and white in life and aren't easily categorised into GUD and BAD. Carry that life lesson with you.
Also, you seem to think that I'm against Seunghee or maybe the second couple, but if you stopped being so irrationally offended for a few seconds, you'd notice my post points out KyuTaek fans also. But that doesn't fit into your narrative, does it? Because it's easier to go HOW DARE THEY SAY THAT ABOUT MA FANDOM!!!! HE MUST BE BAD KYUTAEK FAN ATTACKIN MA SHHHHIIIIPPPPP!!! IM SO ANGERY
I have no idea how you went to include the topic revolving around gender discrimination. That tells me again that you have a weird view of things. As I mentioned in my other post, I admit that I like Seunghee as a character which is why I can be emotional when I see posts that demean his character. When I read, I like to be immersed. That's the gist of it. Besides, what is wrong with defending his character from criticism, exactly? Shouldn't you be open to it? That is literally what they do in class which I'm going to assume you went to despite the fact that you present yourself in an obnoxious way. Again, as a reality check, I don't tend to idolize real people. They bore me which is probably another reason why I get so invested in fictional characters so you don't have to worry about me suffocating someone.
Look, immature person... if you are going to criticize something, make sure that you criticize the idea that is being presented. Don't criticize the fact that people do certain things which they are free to do. And please, don't lift up yourself now when in your very own post, you suggested the idea that people shouldn't do things which is most likely why you didn't include that thought in your response. You know you are in the wrong here. How about you carry that life lesson with you instead?
Finally, stop writing things that I wouldn't write or think about. You're the only one here who keeps degrading himself/herself whenever you do that. Just to reiterate my thoughts, I am not offended because you have an ulterior motive that I'd like to think you have (whether that is true or not is on me); I am offended because of what you said in your post.
Nah, you're offended because you think I have some kind of ulterior motive. IDK what that is but apparently you were offended enough to accuse me of having that, when we are just have a dicussion on MANHWAS. What, do you think I'm about to hatch a nuclear plot or something, kid?
"I admit that I like Seunghee as a character which is why I can be emotional when I see posts that demean his character. When I read, I like to be immersed"
No, that shows that you are pretty much the kind of person that thinks in black and white. No one is allowed to criticse your character. You are the kind of shallow reader that thinks that a good character is one with no flaws.
And stop contradicting yourself, oh my god. It's so brainless I'm getting a migraine from wondering how stupid you can be to not even notice it. You get mad at me for suggesting that people do things, and then say "stop writing things that I wouldn't write or think about". Also, you get mad that I criticise your character, but say that I should take it in good stride that you criticise me for whatever.
And worse, your criticism makes absolutely no sense! It's just you babbling and getting mad over something stupid while completely avoiding the point. Only a baby like you would actually get mad that I suggested we stop comparing the couples and making people upset in the comments. But of course, you're young and clearly, you don't have much of a brain if I keep explaining this to you and you fail to get it.
I'll make it simple: Bad to compare and make people unnecessarily angry. Be nice. OK> Did Mommy teach you how to be polite? If she didn't have the time to teach you, well, I understand why you're so mad about me somehow taking away your rights to be a brat. If you need lessons on manners your Mommy didn't teach you, ask your Daddy or something.
Oh well, talking to you is like talking to a goat. You're the one avoiding the very issue you presented. I literally stated in my initial response that I think you are wrong to tell people what to do and what not to do. Me theorizing that something else is behind is the scene is more or less an afterthought. Regardless of whether that theory is right or nor is irrelevant. My main point stands. Don't worry, I certainly don't think you have a nuclear plot or something similar. You wouldn't be that smart to come up with something as complex as that. Furthermore, comparing things isn't unnecessarily bad. You keep telling me that I see things as black and white yet you are the one that falls in this deluded state. And please, don't start saying things to be polite. You weren't polite in your post either, you hypocrite. You are so deluded that you can't acknowledge the fact that you are just a mean person. My mother taught me to always place my feet on someone's else's shoes before I speak. Your parents might have taught the same to you but you probably forgot or ignored it. I couldn't for the life of me try to insult someone's parents like you can so easily. You think I'm the bad guy here? Try reading your responses again. You may think you sound smart by talking like a crass individual but it only shows your degenerate side. Before telling others to mind their manners, how about minding yours? You can keep telling yourself that I'm the one acting like a kid here but you will never change the fact that you are just a petulant child regardless of your actual age. Let's not talk to each other anymore since it is not going to bear any good fruit. Enjoy what you like to enjoy because that's what I've been promoting since the beginning. Despite the fact that you are crass, childish, and presumptuous, you have every right to think what you think. I was expecting a somewhat decent discussion but you felt the need to insult someone you don't even know personally. That, my dear friend, is the level that you are in.
A long long response that still doesn’t answer the points I brought up. Wouldn’t it be easier to just admit that you were offended, you started spouting contradictions in your weird fury over “HOW DARE SOMEONE INSULT MY FAVE CHARACTER HE IS GOD” and then when I pointed them out, you refused to answer and just went on some dumb rant to hide this obvious fact: you can’t take criticism?
LMFAO there’s so much shit in this comment I really feel like ignoring it because it makes my brain hurt at how stupid you are. I’m mean? You’re the one stomping your feet, screaming like a 3-year-old that got told off by his mother that he should stop raining on people’s parade. You’re brainless, that’s the conclusion I’ve gotten. You get mad that people tell you not to ruin the experience for others, pretty much like a neckbeard who thinks it’s edgy to be rude because your mother neglected you. Then you act like a child and project everything that is you on me. Your parents really did a bad job with you, is everything okay at home? How self-contradictory can you be? You’ve one of the lowest intelligence i’ve seen.